Jazz of New Orleans

[00:00:00] New Orleans, Louisiana has produced some of the most interesting culture in the great U.S. of A.

[00:00:07] Join us at the table as we discuss New Orleans jazz, sometimes called Dixieland jazz.

[00:00:16] Welcome to the Steel Magnolias Podcast. We are two sisters here to have uplifting conversations about life in the South.

[00:00:23] The South is full of beautiful diversity in landscape, people groups and culture.

[00:00:30] And we want to showcase each part. We've got plenty of room at our table. So pull up your chair.

[00:00:39] Welcome back. You got Laura Beth and Lainie here at the table with you. Hey, sis.

[00:00:44] Hi, Lainie here.

[00:00:46] So I had fun preparing for this because my husband got me Sirius XM radio for my birthday this year.

[00:00:53] He did. Yes. So I have a subscription at least for the next year. I had a little bit of a tease because I bought a used car.

[00:01:00] So I got like three months. No, not three months. Maybe maybe three months free.

[00:01:05] No, I think you get three months free. Yeah.

[00:01:08] I ended it there, but I enjoyed it while I had it.

[00:01:11] They've got all kinds of stations, including jazz.

[00:01:14] I don't think they have one called New Orleans jazz, but they have lots of jazz station offerings.

[00:01:20] Well, many believe jazz was born in New Orleans.

[00:01:24] Yeah.

[00:01:24] So I know there's controversy around everything.

[00:01:28] Also, some people call New Orleans jazz Dixieland jazz, and some critics think that's its own subset.

[00:01:36] I'm not getting into the weeds of detail on this.

[00:01:39] I will probably call it both.

[00:01:42] We're just a simple Southern culture podcast.

[00:01:45] We don't get into the weeds of the critics subset.

[00:01:50] Neither of us play trumpet nor trombone nor anything really.

[00:01:54] So yeah, we just keep it pretty basic.

[00:01:57] But I am fascinated with the style.

[00:02:02] And Dixieland jazz has such a fun ring to it, but it does.

[00:02:07] That feels like an antiquated name.

[00:02:10] So I'm probably just going to.

[00:02:11] Oh, because of the word Dixie?

[00:02:11] Yeah, I'm probably just going to call it.

[00:02:13] I don't know.

[00:02:14] Did they?

[00:02:14] I don't know.

[00:02:15] They call it that.

[00:02:16] Traditional jazz, Hot Jazz, or Simply Dixieland.

[00:02:19] That's all I was reading.

[00:02:20] I even saw it spelled J-A-S-S a time or a place.

[00:02:24] Interesting.

[00:02:24] A couple of places because I wondered if that's how some people said it.

[00:02:29] Jazz.

[00:02:30] Yeah.

[00:02:31] And so.

[00:02:32] Interesting.

[00:02:32] I don't know what came first.

[00:02:33] Who knows?

[00:02:34] Jazz or jazz.

[00:02:35] We're not here to.

[00:02:36] Anyway.

[00:02:37] Give credit exactly for.

[00:02:39] Anyway, yeah.

[00:02:40] Well, first of all, just New Orleans is fascinating to me.

[00:02:45] So fascinating.

[00:02:45] I believe that because of its location being on a coast, because of its ethnically, racially,

[00:02:53] and cultural diversity.

[00:02:55] Yes.

[00:02:56] Beautiful things are born.

[00:02:58] We've got French.

[00:02:59] Beautiful music.

[00:03:00] Beautiful food.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:02] French, Spanish, Creole.

[00:03:05] That's right.

[00:03:05] All represented.

[00:03:06] All those heritages.

[00:03:07] You have some immigrants from Cuba and the Caribbean coming in.

[00:03:12] And cross influences of African derived cultures like Creole, which is a mix of French and

[00:03:18] African.

[00:03:19] I mean, of course, there's going to be cool things that come out of all this.

[00:03:23] And this just kind of set the stage for the development of New Orleans jazz.

[00:03:29] I even was cracking up thinking about all the names for New Orleans.

[00:03:33] You got Nola.

[00:03:34] Oh, that's true.

[00:03:35] You got Nolens.

[00:03:37] Yes.

[00:03:37] You got Crescent City.

[00:03:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:03:40] That's right.

[00:03:41] You got the Big Easy.

[00:03:42] Oh, my goodness.

[00:03:43] Yeah.

[00:03:44] So all these names, I mean, just tell you there's a lot happening there.

[00:03:48] And I even read something about the Big Easy that there's, again, different versions of

[00:03:55] where that name came from.

[00:03:56] But one, that it was just laid back, which makes sense.

[00:04:01] True.

[00:04:01] But also that it was easy for all different musicians of different colors and heritages

[00:04:08] and races to perform.

[00:04:10] This is what I love about this podcast.

[00:04:12] I've literally never stopped.

[00:04:13] I've heard it called the Big Easy countless times.

[00:04:15] But never stopped to think about the why.

[00:04:17] Why is it called the Big Easy?

[00:04:18] So there's different reasons why, but I like them all.

[00:04:22] All of that makes sense.

[00:04:24] So yeah, sometimes it's used interchangeably to be called Dixieland.

[00:04:28] But I don't know if that's its own subset or not.

[00:04:31] But we're just going to stick with New Orleans jazz.

[00:04:35] Yeah.

[00:04:35] And yeah, we're talking about it evolving from African and Caribbean kind of a lot of

[00:04:41] call and response sort of rhythms to it as well.

[00:04:47] And it kind of draws from several sources.

[00:04:49] That ragtime piano style.

[00:04:52] Yes.

[00:04:53] That's what I love.

[00:04:54] I love movies from that era.

[00:04:56] I love the style from that era.

[00:04:57] Think about the Entertainer, that song.

[00:05:00] Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

[00:05:02] Do, do, do, do, do, do.

[00:05:04] You got the marches.

[00:05:05] We've talked about that in our episode years ago about...

[00:05:09] Southern funerals?

[00:05:10] Is that what you're talking about?

[00:05:11] Southern funerals and weddings both.

[00:05:13] Yes.

[00:05:13] They have these brass bands that would march.

[00:05:16] Some of the African American gospel hymns.

[00:05:19] You've got the...

[00:05:20] It's drawing from some European classical music.

[00:05:24] Some of the minstrel style.

[00:05:26] Oh, that's true.

[00:05:28] Yeah.

[00:05:28] So interesting.

[00:05:29] And like you said, those call and response chants.

[00:05:33] And some of the drumming too.

[00:05:35] Oh, yeah.

[00:05:36] African culture.

[00:05:37] So...

[00:05:37] That makes sense.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:38] I thought about that.

[00:05:39] The time frame here, we're talking kind of 1900 to 1928 was when this was really getting

[00:05:47] going.

[00:05:48] Getting going, yeah.

[00:05:48] Yeah.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:50] And so there were a few artists.

[00:05:54] Did you want to mention any artists to like call out by name?

[00:05:58] Sure.

[00:05:59] Before we get to artists by name, though, I wanted to say some of the key attributes.

[00:06:05] Okay.

[00:06:05] Of this kind of style.

[00:06:07] First of all, musical features.

[00:06:10] You saw a lot of improvisation.

[00:06:12] Uh-huh.

[00:06:13] Jazz is so unpredictable.

[00:06:16] Yes.

[00:06:17] But yet predictable.

[00:06:18] It's the strangest thing.

[00:06:19] Yes.

[00:06:20] You have kind of that ensemble, syncopation, instrumentals sometimes.

[00:06:26] And like you said, call and response.

[00:06:31] You have the themes.

[00:06:33] I mean, they're really kind of everywhere.

[00:06:35] Daily life, love and relationships.

[00:06:37] But you also see themes of dance, themes of war, themes of migration.

[00:06:43] So all of that's kind of interesting.

[00:06:45] So all of that's kind of interesting to me, too.

[00:06:47] All right.

[00:06:47] So yeah, let's talk about some.

[00:06:50] Okay.

[00:06:50] So we got to talk some names, too, though, right?

[00:06:52] Well, before we get to names, I wanted to kind of go into that improvisational.

[00:06:58] That's a long word.

[00:06:59] Improvisational element of jazz.

[00:07:01] It's kind of attributed to the creativity and the need for New Orleans musicians, many of whom could not read music.

[00:07:09] And that's so funny to me because when you say that, I'm thinking that is harder than like you have to be a really good musician to be able to riff and do this improv.

[00:07:20] Because you have to be so comfortable in your skin and the other players.

[00:07:24] That's right.

[00:07:25] Or this is going to work.

[00:07:26] You're not just reading the music, sticking to the page.

[00:07:29] Yeah, that's right.

[00:07:31] And so that's funny because you're saying it's because they couldn't read music that they did it this way.

[00:07:38] They had to be good and they had that kind of leads to improv, right?

[00:07:42] Yes.

[00:07:43] Also, besides playing, they played dances.

[00:07:46] They played parades.

[00:07:47] And in the early 1900s, these bands would also play for funerals and they marched along the procession.

[00:07:55] We kind of talked about that in some other episodes.

[00:07:58] Yeah.

[00:07:59] Like you'd even call them.

[00:08:00] And it's a celebration of the life of the departed.

[00:08:02] It wasn't just a sad thing.

[00:08:04] It was kind of a celebration of life.

[00:08:07] They drew from blues elements, quickening the tempo of the music.

[00:08:11] And they were often seven member ensembles that created the basics of what would become jazz.

[00:08:18] Now let's talk some names.

[00:08:21] Well, when you said funeral, I mean, I literally had like funeral bands, I think is what they sometimes even called these groups.

[00:08:27] Okay.

[00:08:27] Because that was, I mean, and that makes sense.

[00:08:29] Like, where's the, who's got a funeral band?

[00:08:31] Like, you know, there's probably some go-to names.

[00:08:34] The name Buddy Bolden came up in a few things that I read.

[00:08:37] He lived from 1877 to 1931.

[00:08:40] And I read that he was oftentimes credited with establishing the first ensemble in jazz history.

[00:08:47] And, you know, you can't really have any sort of conversation about New Orleans jazz without talking a little Louis Armstrong.

[00:08:55] Oh, Louis Armstrong.

[00:08:56] Louis Armstrong.

[00:08:57] Yes.

[00:08:58] Gosh, I love him.

[00:08:59] He was very influential in shaping the aesthetic of early jazz.

[00:09:03] Kind of expanded the creativity.

[00:09:06] He kind of shifted the emphasis from a collective improvisational format to a structure that allowed a little bit more instrumental solos and vocal style.

[00:09:20] His voice.

[00:09:22] His voice, y'all.

[00:09:23] Is such a powerful instrument.

[00:09:27] He's interesting because sometimes I'm like, is he talking or is he singing?

[00:09:33] Right.

[00:09:33] And I love it when singers do that because I don't, I don't have like a vocal range per se that I like to exercise.

[00:09:41] But I've got a great beat.

[00:09:43] Yes.

[00:09:43] We're good at dance.

[00:09:45] Yeah.

[00:09:46] Who doesn't like start snapping their fingers when you hear like Mack the knife or, you know?

[00:09:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:51] Just for sure.

[00:09:53] I mean, his voice, you're like you said, I mean, it's so interesting and unique.

[00:09:58] Slide pitch.

[00:09:59] Yes.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Well, he had a wordless vocalizing style that became the foundation for what was called scat singing.

[00:10:08] Okay.

[00:10:09] Yes.

[00:10:10] And so, yeah, he's very influential in this time frame.

[00:10:14] Also, Papa Jack Lane.

[00:10:16] Yeah.

[00:10:17] From 1873 to 1966 was when he lived.

[00:10:21] He often was credited with being the first white jazz musician.

[00:10:25] Okay.

[00:10:26] He was a drummer and a saxophonist.

[00:10:28] And he had a band called the Reliance Brass Band.

[00:10:32] Okay.

[00:10:33] From the Reliance Brass Band, later, there was a couple other bands that birthed out of that.

[00:10:40] The original Dixieland Jazz Band.

[00:10:43] Okay.

[00:10:43] Very famous.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:45] From New Orleans.

[00:10:46] They were white, white band.

[00:10:48] And then also the New Orleans Rhythm Kings.

[00:10:52] Okay.

[00:10:52] So, that would be a couple bands you could look up if you're wanting to hear this style.

[00:10:57] Yeah.

[00:10:58] But, um.

[00:10:59] Sorry, go ahead.

[00:11:00] No, you go.

[00:11:01] Well, I was going to say, it's just crazy to think that all hailing from New Orleans,

[00:11:05] Fats Domino, Mahalia Jackson, Harry Connick Jr.

[00:11:08] I mean, that's moving through lots of the Marsalis family.

[00:11:12] Winton Marsalis.

[00:11:13] Winton.

[00:11:14] Winton and Ellis Marsalis.

[00:11:17] Thank you.

[00:11:17] Yes.

[00:11:19] Yeah.

[00:11:19] There was also Jelly Roll Morton.

[00:11:22] Yes.

[00:11:22] It was a Jelly Roll that was way famous before the current modern day one.

[00:11:26] That's right.

[00:11:26] He was an American ragtime and jazz pianist and band leader, composer of Louisiana.

[00:11:33] He was Louisiana Creole.

[00:11:36] Anyway, he was jazz's first arranger, proving that a genre rooted in improv could really have

[00:11:43] some notation.

[00:11:44] Some order.

[00:11:45] Yeah.

[00:11:45] That's funny.

[00:11:46] That's like a type A that got, you know, like, I'm sure there's so many different

[00:11:51] personalities that get into music.

[00:11:53] And he's like, we still have to bring order to this.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:57] So he was one of the first published jazz compositions in 1915 with Jelly Roll Blues.

[00:12:04] I love it.

[00:12:06] Just some other names I wanted to mention because they're important to the jazz history.

[00:12:11] Pete Fountain, Kermit Ruffins, Danny Barker, Trombone Shorty.

[00:12:16] Now that's a nickname I love.

[00:12:17] Trombone Shorty.

[00:12:19] Jeremy Davenport.

[00:12:20] All just very integral parts of New Orleans jazz.

[00:12:25] And I also wanted to mention, like, if you're visiting New Orleans, you have to go.

[00:12:32] Oh my gosh.

[00:12:32] I actually have a link that we need to put in the show notes of where you can, like jazz

[00:12:37] clubs.

[00:12:37] Well, yeah.

[00:12:38] I just was going to go ahead and call out, like, the Preservation Hall.

[00:12:42] Like, you have to go experience jazz at Preservation Hall.

[00:12:46] It's family friendly.

[00:12:47] It's, they even have Sunday jazz brunches around town.

[00:12:51] There's steamboat cruises that have jazz.

[00:12:54] I mean, you can find jazz everywhere, but go, go get in a club for sure.

[00:12:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:00] At least at some point during your travel to really experience.

[00:13:03] We got to even see, Lainey and I, you, we did the.

[00:13:06] For my birthday last year, year before?

[00:13:10] I think it was the year before.

[00:13:11] Time flies.

[00:13:11] The Preservation Hall Jazz Band came to Nashville.

[00:13:15] And what's funny is the venue they played at is one where you typically stay seated.

[00:13:21] Like, oh, and you just wanted to get up and wiggle.

[00:13:23] Well, I just was like, what are we doing?

[00:13:24] You're supposed to wiggle to this music.

[00:13:27] They had some slow numbers.

[00:13:27] So it was fine.

[00:13:29] But there were a few where I was just like, my leg was just like, tap, tap, tap.

[00:13:34] But yeah.

[00:13:34] Want to shake that booty.

[00:13:36] Really fun.

[00:13:37] And of course, they come from Preservation Hall.

[00:13:38] Well, this style of music, local delicacy, if you will, made its way from New Orleans

[00:13:46] to Chicago, to New York, into the rest of the country, and even Europe.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:53] When you think jazz, you think, you know, of this big genre, but this is where it birthed

[00:13:58] from.

[00:13:59] And I also wanted to mention, in addition, New Orleans was also not only home to Louis

[00:14:06] Armstrong, but Louis Prima and King Oliver are two other names that were big in that

[00:14:12] time.

[00:14:13] And then I loved this.

[00:14:14] According to, I know I quote this book a lot, the Encyclopedia of Southern Culture.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:19] Well, it's a good resource, especially for this podcast.

[00:14:22] Yes.

[00:14:23] Novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald created the idea of a jazz age.

[00:14:29] Oh, okay.

[00:14:30] Jazz was identified with youth and excess and exuberance and even sin and crime.

[00:14:37] Okay.

[00:14:39] Kind of in his great Gatsby novel.

[00:14:42] But in the 1920s and 1930s, jazz was established in Chicago and New York.

[00:14:48] Like I said, it was starting to creep out into other places.

[00:14:51] Right.

[00:14:52] With names like Fletcher Henderson, who was from Birmingham.

[00:14:58] Okay.

[00:14:59] Duke Ellington.

[00:15:00] Wow.

[00:15:00] Who was from Washington, D.C.

[00:15:02] And Jack Teagarden, who was from Texas.

[00:15:06] So even though this was creeping out other places, its roots were in the South.

[00:15:10] Wow.

[00:15:11] Some other Southern jazz stars who later made a name for themselves.

[00:15:17] Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, Ethel Waters.

[00:15:22] So by the 1930s, radio had joined with the phonograph to popularize jazz.

[00:15:31] Jazz.

[00:15:31] And that's really when Duke Ellington and Benny Goodman skyrocketed.

[00:15:36] Okay.

[00:15:36] So anyway, jazz of every variety flourished in Southern cities.

[00:15:42] And places like the French Quarter of New Orleans, Memphis' Beale Street area.

[00:15:49] And even St. Louis' Gaslight Square.

[00:15:52] Wow.

[00:15:52] So it's fun to think about that time period.

[00:15:56] I know.

[00:15:57] The 20s and 30s and the music and the clothes and the cocktails.

[00:16:02] Yeah.

[00:16:02] It's very romanticized despite all the hard things that were going on.

[00:16:06] Hard things that the depression had put in.

[00:16:09] And maybe that's why it was even kind of thriving.

[00:16:12] People needed to have a little fun in the midst of all the dreary and dark.

[00:16:17] We should also mention the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival.

[00:16:22] For sure.

[00:16:23] That exists.

[00:16:24] Yes.

[00:16:24] So this is an annual festival.

[00:16:26] Next year's dates are April 24th through May 4th.

[00:16:30] That's right.

[00:16:30] I mean, it's a spread.

[00:16:32] It's more than a weekend.

[00:16:34] And they do so much good in their line.

[00:16:39] They do so much good in their planning and lineup.

[00:16:42] You can go ahead and look at the schedule for next year.

[00:16:46] That would be a fun time to go to New Orleans.

[00:16:49] And, you know, weather wouldn't be too hot yet.

[00:16:52] Right.

[00:16:52] You can see some of these jazz clubs.

[00:16:55] You can try some of the other things we've mentioned on the podcast.

[00:16:58] Some of the wonderful food that came out of that region.

[00:17:02] And Chris Stapleton's playing too.

[00:17:04] Oh, my Lord.

[00:17:05] Let's go.

[00:17:07] Molly Tuttle, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

[00:17:09] I like them a lot.

[00:17:10] Yeah.

[00:17:11] There's a, I mean, I'm literally just touching on a few.

[00:17:14] So it's not even just jazz.

[00:17:16] It's a jazz fest, but it's all kinds of music.

[00:17:19] Yeah.

[00:17:19] I did not realize that.

[00:17:21] Yeah.

[00:17:21] I didn't either.

[00:17:21] So it's, like I said, April to early May next year.

[00:17:25] And you can, I'll link.

[00:17:27] You can go ahead and look in.

[00:17:28] Decide if you want to go down to New Orleans for the jazz festival.

[00:17:32] Well, even if you don't go for jazz fest, we'll link to some jazz clubs you can try on

[00:17:38] your next visit there and see this important piece of American history.

[00:17:44] It's not even just Southern history.

[00:17:46] This is American history.

[00:17:48] Yeah.

[00:17:48] We did an episode a while back on, like, smaller music clubs that were iconic.

[00:17:55] And so I remember Preservation Hall was on there, but there was probably even more than that that

[00:18:00] was on there because there's just, like you said, history to some of these even clubs.

[00:18:05] So I can link to that in our show notes.

[00:18:09] Fun subject.

[00:18:10] Maybe a playlist, too.

[00:18:11] If I find one on Spotify, I'm sure there's good playlists out there.

[00:18:15] I'm going to be enjoying Sirius.

[00:18:17] Sirius XM.

[00:18:18] So for those of us that don't have it, give us a playlist.

[00:18:24] For those that are Spotify listeners or Apple Music.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:28] But yeah, just, I mean, uplifting, fun.

[00:18:32] If you're having a tough week.

[00:18:35] A dreary day.

[00:18:36] Put on some Nolens jazz and it'll turn things around.

[00:18:41] That's so true.

[00:18:42] Anything Louis Armstrong, honestly.

[00:18:44] I mean.

[00:18:44] If you just want to start with him.

[00:18:46] I see.

[00:18:46] I know.

[00:18:47] I mean, his voice.

[00:18:48] What a wonderful world.

[00:18:49] Yeah.

[00:18:51] All right, y'all.

[00:18:52] Good to chat Southern culture.

[00:18:55] You never know which direction we're going, but music is usually.

[00:18:59] Music and food.

[00:18:59] It's a big part of culture.

[00:19:00] It's a huge part of culture.

[00:19:02] So it's very likely we're going to be talking music or food at some point in the conversation.

[00:19:07] Y'all have a great week.

[00:19:08] We'll see you back here at the table next time.

[00:19:10] Until then, peace be with y'all.

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