Western Swing

[00:00:00] Clearly we are lovers of the American South. There are many facets to this diamond of a region, but it has been the birthplace of almost all of the music genres this great nation has birthed. Join us at the table as we discuss Western Swing.

[00:00:20] Welcome to the Steel Magnolias Podcast. We are two sisters here to have uplifting conversations about life in the South.

[00:00:27] The South is full of beautiful diversity in landscape, people groups and culture and we want to showcase each part. We've got plenty of room at our table, so pull up your chair.

[00:00:43] Welcome back to the table. I'm Laura Beth.

[00:00:46] And I'm Lainie.

[00:00:47] And I'm wondering, Lainie, how did you hear about this? Like what was, what made you put Western Swing on our list?

[00:00:57] Because I'll tell you after you answer when I heard about this, about what this was.

[00:01:01] I didn't know Western Swing.

[00:01:03] I don't know what made me put it on that list initially.

[00:01:07] Yeah.

[00:01:08] But I can tell you, I did know of it as a music genre, but I did not know that it would be timely to put it right after Dixieland Jazz or New Orleans Jazz.

[00:01:20] Jazz of New Orleans was our last episode we put out.

[00:01:23] That was a total coincidence.

[00:01:25] In fact, I even thought, should we put two music genres back to back?

[00:01:29] Oh, it'll be fine.

[00:01:30] We didn't realize one birthed the other.

[00:01:32] I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

[00:01:35] Now, one thing I do want to discuss, though, is I am completely floored about what I mentioned in our intro.

[00:01:43] Yeah.

[00:01:44] And that is the American South has literally birthed almost every music genre that this nation has produced.

[00:01:55] Has produced.

[00:01:56] Yeah.

[00:01:57] Especially up until, I mean, I know some of the hip hop and some of that really newer styles, because I'm calling that newer.

[00:02:06] Right.

[00:02:06] Because in the grand scheme of life it is.

[00:02:09] It is.

[00:02:09] Was not a Southern thing per se.

[00:02:11] Right.

[00:02:12] Though it had its hands in it.

[00:02:13] It blows me away that almost every genre.

[00:02:16] The blues completely came from the South.

[00:02:20] Bluegrass.

[00:02:21] While it came somewhat from Irish, Scottish kind of roots.

[00:02:28] It was the American South where those people mostly landed.

[00:02:31] Yes.

[00:02:32] That it got its spin.

[00:02:34] Right.

[00:02:34] That made it what today is bluegrass.

[00:02:36] Yes.

[00:02:37] Country.

[00:02:38] Yes.

[00:02:40] Dixieland jazz.

[00:02:41] Yeah.

[00:02:42] Western swing.

[00:02:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:44] I'm not doing these in order, though they kind of sort of are falling that way.

[00:02:48] Yeah.

[00:02:49] In my brain.

[00:02:49] That's true.

[00:02:51] Rockabilly.

[00:02:52] Oh, yeah.

[00:02:53] Hello.

[00:02:54] Rock and roll.

[00:02:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:56] Arguably started in the South.

[00:02:58] Yes.

[00:02:59] In the Memphis kind of sound.

[00:03:00] Yes.

[00:03:00] The Memphis sound.

[00:03:02] That's kind of amazing.

[00:03:04] It really is.

[00:03:05] Yeah.

[00:03:05] We weren't trying to.

[00:03:06] We knew the South was awesome.

[00:03:07] Fabricate.

[00:03:07] And we knew we were music lovers, but maybe that's one of the reasons.

[00:03:12] Maybe it is.

[00:03:12] Who knows?

[00:03:13] It's in our blood.

[00:03:15] Yeah.

[00:03:15] Well, I'd never heard of it until we actually sat down with Devin Dawson, and I will introduce

[00:03:24] her.

[00:03:24] She's a new friend of ours that we just met a couple of years ago, so we'll introduce

[00:03:28] our conversation with her later in this episode.

[00:03:31] But she put a lot of helpful spin on exactly what all the differences are in Western swing.

[00:03:40] For sure.

[00:03:40] I think we can talk about it with words.

[00:03:42] But since she's a player and a picker.

[00:03:44] Yes.

[00:03:45] She can do a much better job of that.

[00:03:46] It's very helpful.

[00:03:47] She'll play for us, so.

[00:03:48] But one of the important things that I took away from my research for this episode is that

[00:03:54] Western swing was born out of a desire to dance.

[00:03:58] Yes.

[00:03:59] To create music that you can dance to.

[00:04:01] In Texas, they like to dance.

[00:04:04] And they have dance halls still standing that prove that point.

[00:04:09] Yes, ma'am.

[00:04:10] That it is still something that is an enjoyable recreation today.

[00:04:14] And it's fun that it's all ages.

[00:04:17] I mean, you literally see little kids.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Up to elderly that are spinning circles around the dance hall.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:27] Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio.

[00:04:29] They all have some really big ballrooms.

[00:04:32] And I'm saying big.

[00:04:33] They are big in size because everything's bigger in Texas.

[00:04:36] But I mean big by name.

[00:04:37] Like they're famous.

[00:04:39] You know.

[00:04:40] We even got to go to, was it called the Stagecoach Ballroom?

[00:04:44] Yes.

[00:04:44] In Fort Worth.

[00:04:45] So we did.

[00:04:45] We have had some time in a Texas dance hall.

[00:04:49] And it's true.

[00:04:51] That is a recreation that I love that Texans are somewhat holding on to.

[00:04:56] There's not nearly as many dance halls today as there once were.

[00:04:59] I know.

[00:05:00] And it saddens me that even some of them had made it to 2020.

[00:05:05] And then the pandemic made them shut down.

[00:05:08] And that's heartbreaking.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:10] That that would be the reason.

[00:05:11] It really is.

[00:05:12] Because you're, back to your point.

[00:05:14] We're talking about the time of like the Great Depression.

[00:05:17] Which is when this was developing.

[00:05:20] Why you got.

[00:05:20] People needed some fun.

[00:05:21] Yes.

[00:05:22] I mean life was hard.

[00:05:23] And they needed something to kick their heels up to.

[00:05:27] So, well Western swing is kind of a difficult music genre to define.

[00:05:32] It is.

[00:05:33] It contains elements of pop and blues, jazz, folk, fiddle, ragtime.

[00:05:39] Polka.

[00:05:40] Polka.

[00:05:41] Polka.

[00:05:41] That's right.

[00:05:42] Yes.

[00:05:43] So, and you know I was thinking about even with polka.

[00:05:46] There was a lot of Germans that had come to those areas of Texas.

[00:05:51] Yes.

[00:05:52] They had their polka.

[00:05:54] You had some of that mariachi from Mexico.

[00:05:56] Yes.

[00:05:56] That's right.

[00:05:57] That's so true.

[00:05:59] All kinds of influences.

[00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:01] It's not quite jazz.

[00:06:02] It's not.

[00:06:03] It's definitely not country music.

[00:06:05] I think one thing that probably a Western swing player would want to make sure that

[00:06:08] we said on this episode is that they are not country music players.

[00:06:13] Some of the outfits may look similar.

[00:06:16] Yes.

[00:06:16] And that might be more the why people put those together.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:20] But.

[00:06:21] But it is highly improvisational.

[00:06:24] Like jazz.

[00:06:24] Again, that call and response.

[00:06:26] Yes.

[00:06:26] That we talked about last week when I was listening to it as I was preparing.

[00:06:31] Uh-huh.

[00:06:31] I was like, this is so similar.

[00:06:33] I know.

[00:06:34] We didn't make that up.

[00:06:35] We didn't make that up.

[00:06:36] So take us to maybe who was a pioneer or who sort of led this direction of getting music

[00:06:45] accumulated into what is now Western swing.

[00:06:47] Well, that's a great question because there's one I've heard called the father of Western

[00:06:52] swing and one called the king.

[00:06:54] The king.

[00:06:55] Okay.

[00:06:55] So father first.

[00:06:56] Let's do father first, I guess.

[00:06:59] Milton Brown was his name.

[00:07:01] And the king of swing was Bob Wills.

[00:07:06] Yes.

[00:07:06] Now, these two both played at the same time and even played together there for a while.

[00:07:14] So there was a place called the Crystal Springs Dance Pavilion.

[00:07:20] Okay.

[00:07:20] In Fort Worth that they had the formation of the Wills Fiddle Band, which was a small trio

[00:07:29] house dance band that consisted of Bob Wills on the fiddle, Milton Brown as the lead vocal

[00:07:36] and Herman Arnspiker.

[00:07:39] I don't know if that's right.

[00:07:40] Okay.

[00:07:41] On guitar.

[00:07:41] Now, later that year, they added a couple more musicians and they later became known as

[00:07:50] the Aladdin Laddies.

[00:07:52] I think that might have had, I don't know where that name came from.

[00:07:54] But anyhow, in 1930, they became the Light Crust Doughboys.

[00:08:01] Oh, I saw that.

[00:08:02] Yes.

[00:08:02] Okay.

[00:08:02] So they were sponsored by a mill and that's how that name came to be.

[00:08:09] Sponsorships were a thing even back then.

[00:08:13] That's right.

[00:08:13] Sure.

[00:08:14] Now, this Crystal Springs Dance Pavilion was unique in the sense of

[00:08:20] I mean, at that time, we're talking 1929-ish.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:27] It could have almost a thousand people.

[00:08:30] Whoa.

[00:08:30] And I saw something that showed it was 50 cents a couple.

[00:08:33] Wow.

[00:08:34] So, you know, really exciting place to go.

[00:08:38] But man, that's a lot of money they were bringing in.

[00:08:41] I know.

[00:08:41] 50 cents a couple.

[00:08:42] During that time.

[00:08:44] Right.

[00:08:44] That would have been huge.

[00:08:46] But I just couldn't imagine the excitement of that place.

[00:08:51] I even read that Bonnie and Clyde attended a few times.

[00:08:55] Whoa.

[00:08:55] I don't know if that's right.

[00:08:56] They were from Fort Worth if you didn't know that.

[00:09:00] So very well.

[00:09:01] That's why they were in the area.

[00:09:02] Could have been.

[00:09:03] But that venue actually burned down in the 1960s.

[00:09:08] Okay.

[00:09:08] So the actual location is no more.

[00:09:12] Okay.

[00:09:12] But apparently that's pretty hallowed ground.

[00:09:15] Yeah.

[00:09:16] I'd say so.

[00:09:17] For Western swing people because that was kind of where it all got hot and

[00:09:21] hopping.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Now, Milton Brown and Bob Wills later went in different directions, as so often

[00:09:29] happens.

[00:09:31] And Milton Brown, his career was pretty short because he died in a car accident.

[00:09:39] Wow.

[00:09:40] So Bob Wills is called the King of Swing, not only because he got the most

[00:09:47] popular, but he actually had much longer of a career as well.

[00:09:51] Yes, that his name could get tied to.

[00:09:53] Yeah.

[00:09:53] He was 19.

[00:09:54] Bob Wills was 1905 to 1975.

[00:09:57] Okay.

[00:09:58] And he blended ragtime, traditional fiddle tunes, New Orleans jazz, blues,

[00:10:03] Mexican songs, and big band swing.

[00:10:06] They had on his website the most vision.

[00:10:11] I don't know.

[00:10:12] This was like the best imagery that I could imagine of getting us back to what

[00:10:17] this night could have looked like.

[00:10:20] If you're going to hear a Western swing band.

[00:10:22] So can I just read this really quick from Bob Wills website?

[00:10:26] Okay.

[00:10:26] Imagine an empty dance hall, the fresh scent of powdery wax on the floor and

[00:10:32] echoes of good times gone before the year 1938.

[00:10:36] A gray haired woman sits at the ticket window and a man wearing old spice and

[00:10:42] hair tonic positions at the door.

[00:10:44] People arrive, all ages, all walks.

[00:10:48] The room darkens.

[00:10:50] Eyes focus on the stage as the platform fills.

[00:10:53] The dance hall owner and musicians wearing white shirts, ties, boots, and brown pants.

[00:11:00] Ladies and gents, the proprietor draws, his lanky body mimicking the tall microphone.

[00:11:06] Tonight you're in for a dancing good time, believe me.

[00:11:09] We're glad you're here.

[00:11:11] Be good to one another.

[00:11:13] And now let's welcome the man in the band.

[00:11:15] The ones you've come to hear, the one and only Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys.

[00:11:19] The sound of the steel guitar rips through the air.

[00:11:23] Toes tap and bodies sway.

[00:11:25] Fiddle in hand, the band leader appears.

[00:11:28] Early thirties and darkly handsome.

[00:11:30] He glances toward the musicians and then nods to the audience.

[00:11:35] Lifting his fiddle, eyes to the crowd, he puts bow to strings, raises his eyebrows and hollers.

[00:11:42] Ah ha!

[00:11:43] Let's play it boys!

[00:11:44] So cute.

[00:11:46] Isn't that cool to think about?

[00:11:48] So cute.

[00:11:48] And I have to say, you know, I saw pictures of Bob Wills as an old man, basically.

[00:11:54] And when I was doing my research for this, I was like, he was dang handsome in his day.

[00:11:59] He was.

[00:12:00] So, yeah, I had seen him white hair and he had gorgeous black hair.

[00:12:05] But yeah, he had gone from Fort Worth to Waco.

[00:12:09] Okay.

[00:12:10] Once he and Milton kind of split.

[00:12:12] Okay.

[00:12:12] And then from Waco, he ended up going to Tulsa, Oklahoma in 1934.

[00:12:19] And that's where he formed the Texas Playboys.

[00:12:23] Okay.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:23] Their success was more like 1935 to 1947.

[00:12:27] So.

[00:12:28] Yeah.

[00:12:28] Now, the main areas that had these dance halls and where you saw a lot of this music happening

[00:12:35] was Texas, Oklahoma, and even Louisiana.

[00:12:39] Okay.

[00:12:39] So that was the main spot for a long time.

[00:12:42] It would shift a little later.

[00:12:45] But yeah.

[00:12:46] Yeah.

[00:12:47] Well, so he's, he, Bob Wills and Milton Brown, both incredibly important forerunners of creation

[00:12:54] of this genre.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:57] They almost always played at dances.

[00:13:01] Recording sessions, they usually attempted to play earlier agreed upon musical arrangements

[00:13:07] that had developed from those dances.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:09] So it was kind of a, hey, let's do it like we did at the whatever dance hall.

[00:13:15] Because that went over well.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:17] Exactly.

[00:13:18] Yeah.

[00:13:19] I was watching some clip that was saying in this era, if you're the band and nobody's

[00:13:25] dancing, you got a problem.

[00:13:27] Like the whole point is to be dancing.

[00:13:29] So if people are just listening to your music, you're not doing it right.

[00:13:33] Something's not right.

[00:13:34] So I guess you had to have a little call in response to get people a part of it.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] But yeah, very strings based.

[00:13:42] You know, you mostly hear it called Western Swing, but I even heard the names Texas Swing.

[00:13:48] Yes.

[00:13:49] And Hillbilly Jazz.

[00:13:51] I thought that was adorable.

[00:13:55] I don't know if they liked it.

[00:13:57] That is so right on.

[00:13:57] But I thought Hillbilly Jazz.

[00:13:59] That's exactly what it is.

[00:14:01] So cute.

[00:14:02] Wow.

[00:14:02] That brings a totally different connotation to it, in my opinion.

[00:14:05] In a good way.

[00:14:07] But like you said, they might not like that.

[00:14:08] I'm not sure.

[00:14:09] Now, I read something from the Oklahoma Historical Society.

[00:14:12] I felt like this was helpful.

[00:14:15] It said, Western Swing is a ballroom dance music with a Western flair, played primarily

[00:14:20] on stringed instruments.

[00:14:22] However, horns were used and in, excuse me, horns were used in many Western Swing bands

[00:14:29] and other characteristics are an emphasis on a heavy rhythm sound for dancing.

[00:14:35] Okay.

[00:14:36] Okay.

[00:14:36] Well, that describes it well.

[00:14:38] I mean, horns would be a huge part of jazz and big band era.

[00:14:42] Yeah.

[00:14:43] And this is at that same kind of time as you got Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller and some

[00:14:50] of that stuff happening at the same time.

[00:14:53] Yeah.

[00:14:54] Benny Goodman.

[00:14:55] So good.

[00:14:56] Well, can I introduce our friends to Devin?

[00:15:00] So we met Devin Dawson and the reason we met her was because we wanted to learn more

[00:15:06] about an organization we had heard about in Fort Worth called the Cowtown Opry.

[00:15:11] We'll touch base on that in just a little bit, but she is a part of that organization and she's

[00:15:19] known for her vintage guitar style.

[00:15:21] She's got this sort of warm swing time cowgirl vocals.

[00:15:26] She is very, very talented.

[00:15:30] She's a good songwriter too, but mostly if you recognize anything around her voice, close

[00:15:37] your eyes and think of Toy Story and the character Jesse, which I think she was Toy Story two

[00:15:44] or three.

[00:15:45] I can't remember exactly which one.

[00:15:47] Well, our friend Devin here was the yodeling Jesse.

[00:15:52] So not the voice on the movie itself, but on the soundtrack, she was the yodeling Jesse

[00:15:58] on.

[00:15:58] It was Toy Story two.

[00:16:00] So she's performed coast to coast.

[00:16:03] She's been on the Grand Ole Opry.

[00:16:04] She's a Fort Worth Texan at heart.

[00:16:09] And we just wanted you to meet her and she's going to kind of help us talk a little bit

[00:16:15] more specifically from a musician standpoint about Western Swing.

[00:16:21] Well, I'm Devin Dawson in Fort Worth, Texas, and we are currently sitting in the Cowtown Opry

[00:16:27] office.

[00:16:28] It's a 501c3 here in the Fort Worth Stockyards National Historic District.

[00:16:33] I like saying that whole name.

[00:16:35] That's just awesome.

[00:16:37] Fort Worth Stockyards National Historic District, where you can see the world's only twice daily

[00:16:42] cattle drive.

[00:16:43] So great.

[00:16:44] Yeah.

[00:16:45] Longhorn Cattle.

[00:16:45] That's actually what brought us here.

[00:16:47] The Longhorn Cattle Drive?

[00:16:47] Yes.

[00:16:49] Western Swing is the official music of Texas.

[00:16:51] It developed as a dance music.

[00:16:55] Started in the early 30s as an identifiable style, but they didn't have the name Western

[00:17:01] Swing until later.

[00:17:03] At first they called it hillbilly music or hot string band music.

[00:17:08] Yeah.

[00:17:08] Wow.

[00:17:10] At the same time we were developing Western Swing, bluegrass was developing in Kentucky.

[00:17:17] So they're not to be confused.

[00:17:19] They're totally different.

[00:17:20] Bluegrass is more influenced by Celtic.

[00:17:23] Yes, it is.

[00:17:24] And I went to Scotland in 2006 and it finally, sitting there at the Taste of Scotland show,

[00:17:31] it dawned on me why bluegrass is what it is.

[00:17:36] Yeah.

[00:17:36] Because, you know, it so comes from those roots.

[00:17:40] But Western Swing, we not only have Celtic influence because we do breakdowns in reels and

[00:17:45] fiddle work, but we also have the Mexican influence with the mariachis where fiddles play in harmony.

[00:17:52] See, in bluegrass, everybody, they try to play lickety-split-fast, perfect synchronization in unison.

[00:18:01] And I was sitting, I mean, I don't know, maybe you can think of examples where they played in harmony,

[00:18:08] but it's kind of a unison thing.

[00:18:10] I get it.

[00:18:10] And also the harmonies, the vocal harmonies they use are like, I think they use like the lead and then the fifth.

[00:18:18] And it has an interesting mournful sound.

[00:18:21] But anyway, in Western Swing, we are a slower beat, usually four-four swings.

[00:18:28] But there's a lot of variety.

[00:18:29] There's polkas because we're fusion music.

[00:18:32] There's five cultures or more that added to Western Swing, and that's why it's the official music of Texas.

[00:18:37] We have the Mexican influence.

[00:18:39] We have the blues influence from black, from slaves and the slave era, but also New Orleans.

[00:18:45] We have jazz.

[00:18:47] We have Chicago jazz influences.

[00:18:50] Bob Wills listened to Django Reinhardt.

[00:18:52] He loved that.

[00:18:53] He listened to Glenn Miller.

[00:18:54] He loved that.

[00:18:55] But he would take, Bob Wills would take his band, which was string-based.

[00:18:59] So it would like have two or three fiddles playing harmony, drums, rhythm guitar, big bass, good string-based, steel guitar, and piano.

[00:19:13] Later on, Bob added horns because he liked Gilliam Miller and Dorsey and everybody and Benny Goodman.

[00:19:18] And so he would give it that Texas twine because it was string-based.

[00:19:23] So everything he could do in a big band with brass, he would do with strings.

[00:19:28] So anyway.

[00:19:30] That's incredible.

[00:19:31] Bob Wills, and we have the Native American influence in the music.

[00:19:36] We have, we'll see, Hollywood, Hollywood influence, and Bob Wills did make pictures, movies with Columbia Pictures.

[00:19:44] He was with the Durango Kids, Charles Starrett films.

[00:19:48] You can see clips, or if you have any of those movies, you'll see Bob Wills in Texas.

[00:19:53] So Cowtown Opry intrigued us.

[00:19:56] Again, that's kind of how we found Devin because we just were so proud of them.

[00:20:00] Every Sunday afternoon, you're going to find Devin or another mentor right there on the steps of the Exchange Building in downtown Fort Worth,

[00:20:10] playing with young people, amateurs, not just young people.

[00:20:15] That's true.

[00:20:15] I want to make that distinction.

[00:20:17] If you're of, you know, an adult age and still are interested just in amateur level, you are so welcome.

[00:20:25] They want to just introduce people to Western, Western swing, gospel music.

[00:20:30] They do certain Sundays, like the one Sunday a month or something, they do a theme of just gospel music.

[00:20:37] Cowboy poetry.

[00:20:38] They really cover lots of good historical music that needs to be preserved.

[00:20:45] So we loved meeting her.

[00:20:47] And I do want to just let her now sort of talk specifics on Western swing.

[00:20:53] And I want to let y'all hear her play.

[00:20:56] So the Western swing style of sock rhythm guitar has a moving voice.

[00:21:03] If you were playing in country music and you had a three-chord song, you'd play like...

[00:21:07] I didn't do that well.

[00:21:18] Open chords.

[00:21:19] Okay.

[00:21:20] That's actually, when I played the F, I was in the key of C.

[00:21:22] When I played the F, I just, I hate playing four-string F.

[00:21:26] It's kind of like that.

[00:21:27] So I did a, I did a closed chord there.

[00:21:29] But anyway, if you were playing it Western swing style, you would not only do those three chords, but you'd add other colors too.

[00:21:39] Three chords into about 12.

[00:21:57] She's precious.

[00:21:57] So much fun.

[00:21:59] I mean, this whole dance, it's hard to sit still and listen to her.

[00:22:02] I know.

[00:22:03] You want to dance.

[00:22:04] Yeah.

[00:22:05] So she's all about preservation.

[00:22:08] And we do have to preserve because it got dispersed, right?

[00:22:14] This music got dispersed after the 30s.

[00:22:16] And had some reasons as to kind of why it started dying away, honestly.

[00:22:20] In the 40s, there was a couple of things that happened.

[00:22:24] Number one, the Great Dust Bowl, which was huge for North Texas and Oklahoma.

[00:22:31] This was conditions that caused people to have to move.

[00:22:36] Because it was literally dusty.

[00:22:38] So bad.

[00:22:40] You know, so food wasn't like it was.

[00:22:42] And crops were lacking.

[00:22:45] So drought.

[00:22:46] It can't work.

[00:22:47] We've got to go somewhere else.

[00:22:48] So that started sending a lot of people west to California.

[00:22:52] Okay.

[00:22:54] In addition, you know, we're World War II.

[00:22:58] Oh, true.

[00:22:59] Hello.

[00:23:00] So that had a big influence on some of the people moving, again, for job reasons.

[00:23:05] Or lack thereof of having a job.

[00:23:07] So you have to go elsewhere.

[00:23:10] And then there was a federal wartime dance hall tax that happened in 1945 that also contributed

[00:23:19] to this genre's decline.

[00:23:21] I didn't know about that.

[00:23:22] So in 1944, the United States was, you know, very involved in this war.

[00:23:29] And so there was a 30% federal excise tax that was levied against nightclubs that featured

[00:23:37] dancing.

[00:23:38] Wow.

[00:23:39] So that's pretty significant.

[00:23:42] Wow.

[00:23:42] Yeah.

[00:23:43] And it literally had, there was no dancing allowed signs that went up all over the country.

[00:23:49] It had been argued that the tax had a significant role in the decline of public dancing in general.

[00:23:56] Wow.

[00:23:57] And I didn't know any of this.

[00:23:58] And it really makes me sad when I think about it.

[00:24:01] Because I have often thought like, gosh, I miss the days when it wasn't, like dancing wasn't like a sexual thing.

[00:24:12] It was just like a fun social thing.

[00:24:14] Yes.

[00:24:14] Like you saw people do dance with any partner.

[00:24:18] It wasn't anything about that.

[00:24:21] It was social.

[00:24:22] It was social.

[00:24:22] It was community.

[00:24:24] It was exercise.

[00:24:25] It was all different ages together.

[00:24:29] Yeah.

[00:24:29] And it's made, it's makes me sad that that's not really seen very often anymore.

[00:24:35] It's not.

[00:24:36] And.

[00:24:36] If it is, it's like some sort of showcase of an old, some festival that's doing, right?

[00:24:44] Like showcasing.

[00:24:45] Some kind of Dickens time frame.

[00:24:47] A square dance.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:49] Of some sort.

[00:24:50] That's just like.

[00:24:52] Once a year.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:54] So let's bring it back.

[00:24:57] Wow, that's so sad.

[00:24:58] Anyway, so that was two of the things that really made a big impact.

[00:25:03] Right.

[00:25:04] But in the 40s, it's still going.

[00:25:07] Yes.

[00:25:07] And now there's these people from Texas and Oklahoma are now in California.

[00:25:13] They still want to play the music they know.

[00:25:16] They brought their instruments, I'm sure.

[00:25:17] So you start seeing some of this start happening in the movies.

[00:25:22] Yes.

[00:25:23] So I think that's kind of interesting because there's this downside of it.

[00:25:28] It's kind of going in decline in a lot of ways.

[00:25:31] But when you start seeing things happen in Hollywood, it not only goes across this country,

[00:25:37] it goes international.

[00:25:38] It is wild the impact that things in movies have.

[00:25:43] Movies reach far beyond borders.

[00:25:46] So I believe 100% what you're saying right now.

[00:25:50] I think that's really fascinating.

[00:25:54] And Bob Wills ended up being in a lot of movies.

[00:25:57] I have that in my notes here somewhere.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] But he was in quite a few movies.

[00:26:03] He was.

[00:26:04] I can't remember the picture group that he was with.

[00:26:06] Columbia Pictures or some group that he partnered with to produce movies.

[00:26:11] But yeah, he was all about.

[00:26:13] He was an entertainer.

[00:26:15] For sure.

[00:26:15] For sure.

[00:26:16] So that translates easy to acting.

[00:26:18] Well, I can't find that in my notes, all the movies he was in.

[00:26:21] But I wanted to say it was like 19.

[00:26:24] Yes, 19 films.

[00:26:25] Wow.

[00:26:26] So that's pretty fascinating.

[00:26:30] Now, this kind of went on the 40s, 50s, 60s.

[00:26:34] You saw some of this genre still hopping and happening.

[00:26:41] And then it kind of starts dying down.

[00:26:44] And then in the 1970s, there was a band called Asleep at the Wheel that formed.

[00:26:52] And kind of they were from Pawpaw, West Virginia.

[00:26:56] Okay.

[00:26:57] Pawpaw.

[00:26:58] Wow.

[00:26:59] I think we mentioned that one time in an episode on funny names or something.

[00:27:03] And I'm like, Pawpaw, West Virginia.

[00:27:05] Wow.

[00:27:06] I think I remember saying that.

[00:27:08] Anyhow, they were based out of Austin, Texas.

[00:27:10] Okay.

[00:27:11] This band was.

[00:27:13] And they kind of had a resurgence of this style of Western swing.

[00:27:19] And it had been an influence on quite a few country and Western singers.

[00:27:24] But to kind of really focus in on it as its own thing, that was unique for Asleep at the Wheel.

[00:27:30] Now, there's a lot of artists that say they were influenced by Western swing.

[00:27:35] Ernest Tubb, Hank Williams, Marty Robbins, Merle Haggard, Red Stegall.

[00:27:42] I smile because we actually saw him in Fort Worth too.

[00:27:44] We did.

[00:27:45] George Strait.

[00:27:47] A lot of that outlaw country movement with Willie and Waylon.

[00:27:51] Yes.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:53] Lyle Lovett's considered Western swing, even himself.

[00:27:57] Yeah.

[00:27:58] So, but yeah, Asleep at the Wheel kind of helped make Austin a major center for Western swing.

[00:28:06] Okay.

[00:28:06] Because it was close, but not right there.

[00:28:10] The annual South by Southwest Music Festival, as well as Austin City Limits, also kind of made all of that be a hub for Western swing again.

[00:28:22] Now, Asleep at the Wheel has won, this blows my mind, they've won nine Grammy Awards.

[00:28:29] Whoa.

[00:28:30] And they've released over 20 albums.

[00:28:34] What?

[00:28:35] And charted more than 21 singles.

[00:28:37] Oh my goodness.

[00:28:38] On the Billboard country charts.

[00:28:39] So.

[00:28:40] Wow.

[00:28:41] Keeping it going.

[00:28:42] Well, that debunks the argument that it's not country, but.

[00:28:45] Wow.

[00:28:46] It's got to, it has to go in some sort of a chart.

[00:28:48] That's not a whole Western swing chart.

[00:28:50] That's true.

[00:28:51] True.

[00:28:51] So, it needs some sort of parent category.

[00:28:55] But, wow, that's exciting.

[00:28:58] So, Austin got its name on the Western swing map as well.

[00:29:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:03] I still think Fort Worth is considered its hotspot, though.

[00:29:08] I do too.

[00:29:08] And they're the ones that are like the Cowtown Opry, trying to pass it on to the next generation far and right.

[00:29:15] Right.

[00:29:16] So, yeah.

[00:29:17] I think we've done a good job getting everybody entertained and educated on Western swing.

[00:29:23] Definitely, if you're in Fort Worth at any time, check out what they offer through the Cowtown Opry.

[00:29:29] Every Sunday afternoons, we know they do a little, what would you call that?

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] Yeah.

[00:29:37] Of some sort.

[00:29:37] Like, it varies week to week on what they're doing.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:40] But if you find yourself there, definitely check out what they're doing.

[00:29:44] It's such a fun style.

[00:29:45] I love that they still have the look of the, you know, I always love when music has like

[00:29:51] kind of a look to it.

[00:29:53] And you remember at the Cowgirl Museum, I bought us both a little scarf to tie on our necks.

[00:29:59] And we both still wear them every once in a while.

[00:30:02] I wore mine when I was in Texas the last time.

[00:30:05] I love mine.

[00:30:06] And, yeah, so get yourself a little neck scarf and a pair of boots and boot scoot this week to some Western swing.

[00:30:16] I bet you could find a cute playlist on Spotify or something.

[00:30:19] And if you can't, just Bob Wills.

[00:30:22] Start with him.

[00:30:22] Milton Brown.

[00:30:23] Start with him.

[00:30:24] Or Spade Cooley.

[00:30:25] That was another big name I forgot to mention.

[00:30:27] Oh, yeah.

[00:30:28] For sure.

[00:30:29] Well, y'all have a great week.

[00:30:31] And we'll see you back here next time.

[00:30:33] Peace be with y'all.

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